Friday, June 19, 2015

Herald Letter: LETTER: Keep UND’s identity by choosing North Dakota

Here's a letter from a read of the Grand Forks Herald. Thoughts? 


Grand Forks Herald -- The recent poll in the Herald said that people would rather stay North Dakota by a 2 to 1 margin.
 I can be included in that group and the following is the reasoning for doing so:
UND’s identity was unique with the Fighting Sioux, it was never  a mascot but an identity.   Now people are in the process of finding a new something for a mascot which UND never had.  The closest was for years the fan group “The Farce”  had Kermit the Frog, which never appeared on UND letterheads.
Why on earth would UND want to become a re-tread of:
   1.  Another member of the animal kingdom (husky, bear, cougar, colt, a rodent, etc.)
   2. A bird of some type (eagle, cardinal, hawk)
   3. A person (cowboy, minutemen, pirate)
The list of things with which UND could identify was once, in the Herald’s April 4 edition, a thousand names long, now it’s not.  Why would we want to be a “just another” something like  every other university  with overlapping identities for their entire existence. UND was unique with its former identity, keep that uniqueness by not becoming a university with a mascot just like everybody else.
UND represents the entire state of North Dakota, which includes all people of your state.  
UND has the best aerospace studies in the U.S., a four-year med school, and other great academic programs. Why not be the leader in the entire U.S. in this regard by not having a mascot like we have not had?  UND never had a guy riding a horse with  spear like Florida State or Illinois with the guy who danced wildly at their athletic contests, so why start now with some cartoon-like representation.  Be who you are, which is a very proud population represented by the University of North Dakota.
Steve Molvig
Lovelock, Nev.

Thursday, June 18, 2015

Play of the Day: Touch Them All Kennys Vargas


Walk off home run by Kennys Vargas to win the game for the Minnesota Twins.

Matt Cooke is Waived, Twitter Responds

Today is a very good day. Since my least favorite player in the NHL was finally waived from the Minnesota Wild, I thought I would celebrate by posting some of the Tweets that I found on Twitter.









See, it's not just me. Many other fans feel the same way. And yes, I agree Cooke is one of the dirtiest players ever to play the game of hockey. He makes Ulf Samuelsson look semi-clean.


Breaking News: Matt Cooke put on Waivers in Minnesota

According to Elliotte Friedman of Hockey Night in Canada fame, the Minnesota Wild have put Matt Cooke on waivers for purpose to buy out his contract.

First off, I am friggin ecstatic. I couldn't be happier. It's well documented, I have never been much of a Cooke fan, I think he's one of the dirtiest players to have play in the NHL. Second only to Ulfie Samuelsson. What sold it for me was Cooke's career-ending, dirty hit on former Boston Bruins forward Marc Savard.

Also, this means a couple of things, the Wild are going to move forward with some of the talented, younger and less expensive forward prospects.

Second, the Wild need to clear some cap space to make room for Devan Dubnyk. Per Michael Russo.
The Wild, looking to clear cap space this offseason, has placed veteran Matt Cooke on waivers. If he clears, the next route would be a buyout.

Cooke, 36, who had an injury-ravaged season and was limited to only 29 regular-season games and seven playoff games, has one more year left on his contract at a $2.5 million cap hit with a $3 million salary.
Finally, I am sure that the Colorado Avalanche fans will be ecstatic with this move as well. Finally, Goon's World would like to wish Cookie well in his next endeavor. Maybe the Pittsburgh Penguins will pick him up off waivers? Probably not though.

Mike Reilly Saga. Snubs Blue Jackets



If you're a fan of the Columbus Blue Jackets, there's a very good chance that you're not all that thrilled with former draft choice Mike Reilly. The former Golden Gophers told the Blue Jackets that he won't be playing for them. Earlier this month Michael Russo said that the Wild were in the running for Reilly.
Sean Lehehy, Puck Daddy -- Todd Richards, Team USA head coach, had a window of several weeks to try and sell free agent-to be Mike Reilly one final time on the Columbus Blue Jackets while at the World Championships.

It didn’t work.

On Wednesday, the Blue Jackets announced that Reilly, who the team drafted 98th overall in 2011, would not be signing with them. Columbus held the former University of Minnesota defenseman’s rights until June 15, but the CBA allowed him to opt out of signing and pursue a deal elsewhere.

Ryan Johansen, your thoughts?

We didn't want him anyway — Ryan Johansen (@RyanJohansen19) June 17, 2015 “We did everything we could, but we have to make other plans now. He was a good prospect for us, but we have to move forward,” said Blue Jackets GM Jarmo Kekalainen to the team’s website.
In three years with the Golden Gophers, Reilly posted 89 points in 117 games.

You may remember a similar situation last summer with Kevin Hayes, who opted not to sign with the Chicago Blackhawks and moved onto the New York Rangers. Same thing happened with Justin Schultz and the Anaheim Ducks in 2012 when he chose to sign with the Edmonton Oilers.

ESPN's Eight NHL Dynasties



There’s been a lot of talk about dynasties after the Blackhawks won their third Stanley Cup in six seasons.  I think I would agree with Scott Burnsides’ rankings. During my life time, the Oilers and the Islanders were top dogs. If the L.A. Kings were to win the Stanley Cup next season, I would think that they could be added to the discussion.
1. Montreal Canadiens (1976-1979)
2. Montreal Canadiens (1956-60)
3. New York Islanders (1980-1983)
4. Edmonton Oilers (1984-85, 1987-88, 1990)
5. Chicago Blackhawks (2010, 2013, 2015)
6. Toronto Maple Leafs (1962-64, 1967)
7. Montreal Canadiens (1965-66, 1968-69, 1971)
8. Detroit Red Wings (1997-98, 2002)

Wednesday, June 17, 2015

Weston Dressler Wouldn't Mind UND Being Named the Roughriders

Kim Thue from the Global News had some remarks from former Fighting Sioux football player Weston Dressler. Apparently, Drexler wouldn't mind UND being called the Roughriders.




“North Dakota” as a Nickname Option

Recently, I have talked to a lot of people that would like the University of North Dakota to remain simply “North Dakota”. Meaning, they don’t want a replacement nickname for Fighting Sioux. I even had a former UND hockey player tell me that he likes that option the best.

I am concerned that when the UND nickname committee cuts the names down to three, they're not going to allow a vote on the North Dakota nickname option. I would caution the committee on doing that. If the committee doesn't allow the fans to have that chance to vote on "North Dakota" as an option, they're going to alienate and upset a lot of people.
Anna Burleson, Forum News Service -- The committee was split on whether to continue to play as "North Dakota," with members Landon Bahl, Chelsea Moser and Lowell Schweigert speaking out against it while Dave St. Peter was in favor of discussing it further.

"Now I think is the time for some courage and the popular choice based on what was submitted during April, obviously to all of us, if you look at numbers, is 'North Dakota,' but popular isn't always the right choice," said Schweigert, a UND alumnus and committee member.

"North Dakota" received 21 points when the committee voted on the name with St. Peter awarding 8, the most, and Bahl awarding -8, the least.
After reading this new article in the Pioneer Press, it would appear that there are some on the UND nickname committee that want to kill and quickly move away from the "North Dakota" option.

Personally, of the seven remaining nicknames, very few are very appealing. Rough Riders, no nickname and _______. I don't know.

WDAZ: What's a Sundog anyway?

Here's another news nugget. I know there are a lot of UND fans that would love to see the Sundogs nickname option go the way of the Dodo bird. Personally, I think the Sundogs nickname is a horrible replacement for the Fighting Sioux nickname.

Also, a word to UND fans, don't be afraid to let the nickname committees know how you feel on the matter.
Other nicknames don't have the uniqueness problem.

Like Sundogs, an atmospheric phenomenon when the sun hits ice crystals creating two colored patches on each side of the sun.

“We certainly think that is something that is unique to our region as well. It's going to be interesting to see how this one plays out. There are a lot of ways to be creative with it as well,” Goehring said of the Sundogs.

And there is discussion about leaving the school without a nickname.

“They had strong feelings about staying North Dakota. Whether or not that was for the old nickname, I had one gentleman comment to me and said, ‘in terms of staying unique being a school without a nickname, but just being North Dakota is way to do that,’” Goehring said. (WDAZ.COM)

Fargo Forum Letters on UND Nickname

As the UND Nickname committee works its way through the process of selecting a new nickname, people are going to chime in with their opinion. Here's just a few that I found from the Fargo Forum.  Feel free to chime in with your thoughts.

Letter: Suggested names not acceptable

By RichardBrecto from Audubon, Minn. Today at 12:47 a.m. Audubon, Minn., 58102

Having been born and raised in North Dakota and being a devoted fan of both University of North Dakota and North Dakota State University sports, I am interested in what UND’s new nickname will be.

In the “Your Opinion” section of The Forum of June 15, there were two letters recommending nicknames. One is favoring “Roughriders” and the other is favoring “Plainsmen.”

My comment regarding these names is as follows:

Grand Forks Red River High School sports teams are known as the Roughriders. I feel that it would be confusing if UND were to adopt the same name.

While “Plainsmen” might be a good name, remember that there are women’s teams, too. I suppose that they could be referred to as the “Lady Plainsmen,” but that just doesn’t sound right.

I don’t believe that either of these names would be suitable.

Here's the letters in question.

Letter: Roughriders for UND nickname and logo

By Bruce Beard from Banning, Calif. on Jun 15, 2015 at 12:23 a.m.

Imagine. A mean winter day in Dakota, heavily mantled in snow. Garbed in severe black, a landlord comes over a hill and sees a house with faint smoke rising from its chimney. In stepping off, he trips, slides down the slope, crashes feet-first through the front door and halts at the feet of a fragile old woman.

“Kind sir,” she says, “what is it you want?” “The rent, ma’am, the rent is what I’ve come for!” “Might I pay just a little this month?” she timidly asks. “Lady,” he shouts, “I’ve had rough sledding, and I didn’t come here toboggan!” In a similar vein, Jeff Willert (“Bully! for Roughriders, by far the best name,” June 11, A4) addresses the selection of UND’s new name for its athletic teams. A true loyalist, he mounts the bully pulpit and essentially declares, “It’s been rough riding, and when it comes to TR, why saddle for less?”

It’s Roughriders, by five and a half lengths! As they say in the racing business, no need to horse around.

Beard is a native of Reynolds, N.D., and graduate of UND. He taught school in Mott and Beach.

Letter: Perhaps Plainsmen for UND nickname

By Jake Lillestol from Fergus Falls, Minn. on Jun 15, 2015 at 12:21 a.m.

I see by the June 10 Forum article the University of North Dakota nickname committee has arrived at 15 ho-hum names. Except for Roughriders, none has any imagination or sense of history. As a die-hard Bison fan, I would offer what I believe is the only appropriate name for our sister/brother adversary. It is long but very appropriate to who they are. I am so thankful for the Bison name. It tells of one of the original inhabitants of North Dakota and exhibits strength. The UND nickname I propose also does. What name? – “The Plainsmen.” North Dakota has been one of the plains states since recorded history began. Everyone is aware of that – including people living in other states. Consider this thought as a UND hockey team heads out east to do battle. Who are these people? Where do they come from? They are the “The Plainsmen from North Dakota.” A Bison-Plainsmen sports battle also sounds exciting. An imaginative artist can paint this picture. Three men standing side by side looking over the vast plains. Who are they? The original inhabitant – an American Indian; next to him, a buckskin jacket clad fellow suggesting a trapper or explorer; finally the farmer who settled the land. (Just a joke – peering out of the ground could be the head of a gopher.)

Tuesday, June 16, 2015

More Nickname News

Now that the Stanley Cup is finally over, we can start looking at things that really matter. What to name the UND sports team. It's kind of funny watching fans of other schools enjoy our plight of picking a new nickname. Thank God that Gopher and Bison fans can't pick UND new nickname.

I have been reading some of the comments over on the Star tribune's website for the UND nickname articles. There's some beauties over there.

Some have talked about this happening over on Sioux Sports.

commonsens4u, Jun. 16, 15 11:30 AM I hope they pick Roughriders. To name themselves after a latex profylactic would make it way to easy for their opponents to have fun at their expense. I can't wait to see the look of shock on the committee's faces when condoms are raining down from the upper deck at their first home hockey game.
This reader has a great point.
King Ulsrud, Jun. 16, 15 11:24 AM What's the rest of the story? Who decides and when? By the way, other than NO nickname (North Dakota), the other six stink for various reasons. What is a green hawk?
What a clown.
hockeybias, Jun. 16, 15 11:30 AM @sibley61 I think the prophylactic product placement possibilities are endless on a college campus... And who couldn't resist staying up a bit later after the game to hear the radio broadcaster bring us "The Contempo Rough Rider prophylactic Climactic Save of the Game!" during the post game show! :)
Yep, UND has a great hockey program.
jbetcher, Jun. 16, 15 11:00 AM I think there's more interest in MN regarding the name issue than there is in ND. Call em what you will; it's one great hockey program and will continue to be a hockey power. A lot of great players have come out of the program. A number of them have their names on the Cup.
Seven is greater than five, right?
commonsens4u, Jun. 16, 15 11:31 AM @jbetcher They do have a good program. Almost as good as Minnesota, BC, Denver and BU.
Another great point, but somewhat flawed. UND needs a nickname for all of it's sports teams, not just hockey.
bisonp, Jun. 16, 15 10:50 AM @oldtimepuck @joemamasw Nah, it's gotta be hockey related. Despite the fact that the team is mostly Minnesotans and Canadians, and that North Stars is not only the name of our old team it's also our state motto and on our flag, they really don't have anything else in Grand Forks. Force was also in the mix prior to this last cut because it's the name of Fargo's USHL team. Fliers was as well. Oh, but it was spelled different so I guess it was OK. As a Gopher and Bison fan this entire process has been quite amusing.

Monday, June 15, 2015

We're Down to 7 Nickname Choices

Here it is... Tonight, the list of 15 has been whittled down to seven by the UND Nickname Committee: Fighting Hawks, Green Hawks, Nodaks, North Dakota, North Stars, Roughriders and Sundogs emerge after the meeting. According to Anna Burleson of the Grand Forks Herald.
Awarding -1, 0 or 1 point to names based on criteria such as uniqueness, linguistic ease and whether the name was a rallying symbol and representative of the region, UND's nickname committee gave "Roughriders" the most points with 48. "Sundogs" and "North Stars" tied for second place with 46 points each and "Nodaks" came in third with 42 points.

Continuing to play as "UND/North Dakota" is also still a possibility.
I would caution the decision UND makers, these are the nicknames the committee likes. This list doesn't necessarily reflect the opinion of UND fans, alumni, and or current students and athletes. Frankly, I find this list very disappointing. There were much better selections cut from the list lying on the trash heap.

Thunder Hawks and Explores are Gone



I actually thought that Thunder Hawks was acceptable. I honestly could live with explorers, too. Although, I am sure our opponents would have fun with that one. If you have young kids, you know what I am talking about. Please for the love of all things good, remove Sundogs, Spirit and Pride from the list, too.

Tweets from the Nickname Committee Meeting



First, woof. I think that is a broad statement that's a bit shortsighted. There are some, yes. I think some of the nicknames that have emerged are so bad, they would rather stay "North Dakota" instead of adopting a really bad, God awful nickname like Sundogs, Pride or Spirit. I find those nicknames to be unacceptable.



If you want to read her tweets, Anna Burleson from the Grand Forks Herald is at the Nickname Committee Meeting tonight. She's been on top the story from the start.

A couple of things have caught my eye tonight. Also after reading some of the tweets, I am convinced UND is going to get he nickname that Lowell Schweigert wants.



Kessel 2.0

This past weekend, Bob McKenzie of TSN fame said that The Leafs might be looking to trade their star forward Phil Kessel. There's a problem, Kessel has a NTC and has listed eight teams that he would be interested in going to.
Bob McKenzie, TSN – Kessel's limited NTC is believed to include eight teams he can be traded to. Prior to the trade deadline, TSN reported those eight teams were believed to be: Boston; Chicago; Los Angeles; Minnesota; Montreal; New York Rangers; Philadelphia; and Pittsburgh.
Here's the problem, moving Kessel isn't going to be an easy feat. Kessel has seven year left on his contract that pays him eight million a year. Six of the teams on Kessel list have extreme cap space issues (Boston, Chicago, Minnesota, Montreal, Philadelphia,  and Pittsburgh).
Hooks Orpik, pensburgh.com --- Unfortunately for the Penguins, that $8.0 million cap hit is just too much to overcome. Kessel has been a productive player and would be in Pittsburgh, but his contract is a non-starter for a team that already has $25.45 million tied up to three players in Sidney Crosby, Evgeni Malkin and Kris Letang. The Pens will have to look elsewhere to fill their need of adding a top-6 winger.
This begs the question, will the Leafs be able to find a team that will be able to take on Kessel's contract? It's going to be hard.


One Facebook, one of my friends also brought up another great point. Kessel is not particularly fond of  talking to the media. Most of the teams on Kessel's list has a very proactive media.

Sunday, June 14, 2015

Phil Kessel Would Accept Trade to Bruins and Wild

English: Phil Kessel and other members of the ...
I just got back from the hunting shack and found this beauty. Apparently, former Boston Bruins forward Phil Kessel would accept a trade to eight teams. This is what Pension Plan Puppets had to say about the matter. 
Scott Wheeler, Pension Plan Puppets -- The list, which was submitted prior to the deadline, is believed to include the Montreal CanadiensPhiladelphia FlyersPittsburgh PenguinsNew York Rangers, and Boston Bruins in the Eastern Conference as well as the Chicago BlackhawksLos Angeles Kings and Minnesota Wild in the Western Conference, according to the report.
Looking at this list, Boston has no cap room, plus I can't see the Bruins being all that excited about taking Kessel back. Ditto with the Minnesota Wild. Both teams are extremely strapped for cash, I don't see how they could make a move like this happen. 

Seriously, I can't see Flyers head coach Dave Hakstol wanting a one dimensional player like Kessel on his team. You have to be able to play in all three zones of the ice. The more I think about it, Kessel would be a perfect Hab. 

Finally, does anyone think Kessel would be a good fit with L.A. Kings head coach like Daryl Sutter? I am being serious. 

Saturday, June 13, 2015

UPDATE:Blackhawks Take Game 5 Thanks to Vermette and the Biggest Gaff in Bishop's Playing Career

by Redwing77

Ok, before I get to what is probably the #1 play in Sportcenter's NOT Top 10, the Chicago Blackhawks now can take the Cup at home with a win in Game 6.

They looked A LOT like the Lightning did earlier in the series, taking it to Tampa right out of the game (Tampa did the same to Chicago in pretty much every game this series up until then really).  Bishop was great for most of the game, stymieing Kane and Teravainnen twice (both breakaways).

In any case, I think Chicago dominated for the first and much of the third periods while Tampa controlled the second.  The officiating was much like typical NHL Playoffs: pretty non-existent.  They let a TON of stuff go, but it didn't really matter.

Tampa's sole goal came from former Red Wing Valterri Filpula on a great backdoor one-timer Crawford had zero chance on.

A slightly humorous note was when Hawk forward Desjardins was hit so hard he broke open the Hawk penalty box door.

In the end, there were LONG stretches of whistle-free hockey that was entertaining to say the least.

The Play

Ok, here's the deal:  the puck is sent off the boards past Terovainen through the neutral zone into the TB zone.  TB's Hedman and CHI's Sharp give chase.  For some extremely stupid reason, Bishop goes full moron and decides, despite Hedman obviously having the inside track on Sharp to the puck, that he is going to come out and play the puck out near the faceoff circle... WHOOOOPS!!!!!!!  Hedman and Bishop collide and Sharp scores the easiest goal of his career....the first in 14 games.

It was simply epic how stupid it was.  It wasn't the game-winner, but it was simply something you would never expect even a halfway competent goaltender to do.

In any case, when Goon is able, he'll help me embed the video I'm sure.

I apologize.

No need to apologize Redwing77, thanks for adding this post. I listened to the game on my XM radio and this the first time that I saw this goal. My first response is woof. Bishop cost his team the game with a low percentage play.

UPDATE:

Here's the video!



Friday, June 12, 2015

A Take on the Coyote Situation **UPDATED**

by Redwing77

Ok, what a debacle this is... and..well.. after reading a few articles here and there, it may seem like this situation is nothing more than a lose-lose-lose situation for every side.

If I read what was commonly available, if Glendale were to be fiscally responsible, then they shouldn't have gotten involved with the team and arena to begin with.

Over the last two years, the arena has lost MILLIONS in revenue, and projects to lose even more than last year by the end of the current fiscal year.

So, the City of Glendale is a loser in this deal.  The team is a loser in this deal because, despite a loyal fanbase, it doesn't make money in Glendale.  And the fans are losers because they are backing a dying horse as it rounds the final bend towards the finish line...an inexorable departure from Arizona.

This leaves me to another "hindsight is 20/20" declaration:  The team should never have left Winipeg.

Is it this cut and dry?  Simplified to be sure but essentially, yes.

The City Council and the Arena didn't plan well, didn't borrow well, and didn't negotiate well.  Arizona Coyotes organization is the primary tenant in the deal, so they're the primary culprit.  Alone, in 2013-2014, the Coyotes lost the city over $8 million.  Up through April alone, the city has lost over $6.3 million in revenue between the Coyotes and other events at the Arena.

So, in essence, it comes down to money.

My take as a result of this?

The Coyote franchise, like the Florida Panthers, are a dying franchise in a "large on paper" market.  In other words, what should be there in market share, isn't.

As an aside, I hope the NHL is paying attention to this as far as other new sites for teams is concerned because I think the very same thing could happen if they move a team to Seattle.

It's time to move.  I've never been a fan of expansion and I've come out in favor of contraction in the past.  My opinion is to still not expand, but to continue to relocate troubled franchises towards places that are either a safer investment (Hamilton, ON and Quebec City, Quebec) or places with a lot of infrastructure already in place to help it succeed (Las Vegas).

I feel REALLY bad for the season ticket holders of the Coyotes as they're the 'biggest losers' in the whole deal.  If the team stays, they'll have to bear a bigger brunt of the load, as tickets would have to increase to guarantee better revenue.  If the team goes, well... at least they'll have more disposable income.

My prediction:  The team moves to Las Vegas, the City of Glendale is further obliterated by bad press, and the entire City Council is voted out in the next election.

***UPDATE***

Today, a Judge granted an injunction filed by the Coyotes that prevents the Council from voiding the contract...at least temporarily.  Here are the details of what went down.

Breaking: NHL, broadcasters settle lawsuit over TV blackouts

Here's some good news that just came across the wire.
By Jonathan Stempel, Yahoo News--- NEW YORK (Reuters) - The National Hockey league will permit fans to watch their favorite teams play outside their home markets, without having to pay extra for a league-wide bundle of games, as part of a settlement of a class action antitrust lawsuit.

The preliminary accord made public on Thursday resolves claims that the league, several teams, Comcast Corp, DirecTV and Madison Square Garden Co, used blackouts to limit out-of-market broadcasts of games.

Fans said this forced them to buy costly bundles of games they did not care about, rather than spend less to buy games "a la carte," if they wanted to want their preferred teams.

Under the settlement, the NHL will, for the next five years, offer a "Game Center Live" Internet package enabling fans to buy single-team packages for at least 20 percent below the cost of bundled packages

Thursday, June 11, 2015

Phoenix Coyotes: Glendale City Council votes 5-2 to nullify the Gila River Arena lease agreement

The Phoenix Coyotes saga is really turning into a gong show. This is a huge Charlie foxtrot. Last night, the Glendale City Council voted to nullify the Gila River Arena lease agreement. Here's the release by from the Coyotes. At what point does the NHL pull the pin on the Coyotes and move the team to another city that might actually appreciate them? I just don't see an end to this mess.
GLENDALE -- The City Council of Glendale on Wednesday night voted, 5-2, to cancel its arena lease agreement with the Coyotes – a 15-year deal established in July of 2013.

After the vote, attorney Nicholas Wood said the team would file for injunctive relief and a temporary restraining order, and file a $200 million lawsuit against the City.

"What we have witnessed here tonight is possibly the most shameful exhibition of government I have ever witnessed," Coyotes Co-Owner, President and CEO Anthony LeBlanc said. "The citizens of Glendale should be very concerned about the government that they have leading them right now, because this was not appropriate… We have been absolutely wronged this evening by a group that is acting in incredibly bad faith."

He added: "Our view is the team will remain here, but the City is not acting in a business-friendly way and should be ashamed."

While the City Council meeting was taking place, NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman told Hockey Night in Canada viewers: "I'm not concerned about the Coyotes. If I lived in Glendale, I'd be concerned about my government." LeBlanc said he was pleased by the number of Coyotes fans who attended the meeting and especially pleased by those who took the time to vocally support the team during the portion of the meeting designated for public comments.

"One thing that was illustrated tonight is that we have fantastic fans,” LeBlanc said. “God love them for coming back to this council chamber after all the times they’ve been in here over the years."