NHL players insist fighting still has a place in hockey

Here’s a really good article on fighting and the players wanting it to remain in the game. I think the point by the writer about Steve Yzerman and having Bob Probert protecting him, is another good point. The writer is right, he did enjoy one of the toughest players to ever play in the NHL protecting his backside.

Mark Lazerus, Chicago Sun Times – An NHLPA/CBC poll conducted in 2011-12 found that 98 percent of players were against banishing fighting. Ninety-eight percent. Some of that has to do with protecting the jobs of the likes of John Scott and Parros. But most of that’s simply the ingrained culture of the sport. To players, fighting is as much a part of the game as faceoffs. You can’t change that overnight. It’s going to take generations to get past that.

Yzerman’s concerns ring particularly hollow, given how glad he was to have legendary enforcer Bob Probert watching his back in Detroit. Yzerman rarely had to worry about being touched, because Probert was always lurking. At the very least, opponents would think twice before taking a run at him.

“That’s where fighting comes in, where you want to stick up for your teammates and you want to have tough guys who protect you so you’re not getting run out of the building every night,” Hawks star Patrick Kane said. “If you take it completely out of the game, and they don’t have to think twice about hitting skilled guys because they know they won’t have to fight someone, there’s no [price] for a cheap hit.”

There’s no easy answer. Yzerman proposed game-misconduct penalties (ejections) for all fights, but all that would do is embolden and encourage goons to try to goad star players into fights to take them out of the game. Full-blown suspensions for simple fights would effectively end fighting, but would lead to vigilante justice and serious injuries caused by guys hell-bent on defending their teammates in other ways. What the NHL needs to do is get rid of the useless fights — the staged ones at face-offs, the forced ones during blowouts, the ones where all a guy is trying to do is wake up a sleepy bench or a bored crowd. Players and fans might like those — as Kane put it, “From a fan’s perspective, there are probably three things you love in hockey: scoring goals, big hits, and the fights” — but they serve no real purpose. They police nothing, they solve nothing.

So do what the Ontario Hockey League did last year — create a quota system. Each player in the OHL now is allowed 10 fights, with the 11th and each one thereafter earning a two-game suspension. This forces players to pick their spots. Someone levels your teammate with a dirty hit? Fight him. Trailing 6-0 at the end of a game and just want to send a message? Not worth it.

I will have to admit that I like the staged fights too. I mean think about this, people go to MMA bouts or pay big money to watch them on pay-per-view and it’s one of the most popular sports on the blogsphere, but we have people that are offended about a bout between two hockey players on the ice. Why is that? Here’s my advice, don’t like fighting, don’t watch hockey. I am more grossed out about the pukes that won’t fight and skate all over the ice hammering people into the boards from behind.

Video from the Probert Funeral

Former tough guy Bob Probert was laid to rest today. R.I.P. Probie.

In honor of Bob Probert; June 5, 1965 - July 5 2010

I thought I would add this video montage to honor former Redwings and Blackhawks tough guy Bob Probert. Man Bob Probert could throw em, and was one of the toughest to ever lace the skates up. Unlike a lot of tough guys in the game today, Bob Probert wasn't some a dimensional goon like Derek Boogaard or Colton Orr that was only good at beating people up. Bob Probert had soft hands and could score goal, Probert score 29 goals during the 1987 - 1988 season.

Former Redwing Bob Probert dead at age 45 (linkorama)

Yesterday, Bob Probert 06/05/1965- 07/05/2010 one of the toughest hockey players to ever play in the National Hockey Leagtue died of an apparent heart attack while boating with his family, Probert was 45. The final Probert line 935 NHL games 162 goals – 221 assists and 384 points and 3,300 penalty minutes. Rest in peace Probie.

character from a video game

“I’ve always thought, ‘I’m Bob. I’m big guy Bob. I don’t need anyone’s help,’” he once told me. It was the kind of bitter honesty that made you want to give him another chance.

He got a lot of them.

Young kids won’t understand our fascination with Probert. They don’t make his kind anymore. But there is a reason you still see people wearing his jersey at Joe Louis Arena, more than 15 years since he last played for Detroit.

Coming up in the 1980s, Bob Probert was the sort of warrior they now model video game characters after. Relentless. Brutal. Single-minded. Unafraid of blood. He was an enforcer, a goon, a guy whose main purpose was to make sure nobody messed with his team’s stars. Someone touched Steve Yzerman? Bob Probert touched back hard. Someone ran the goalie? Probert ran him harder.

His fights are legendary and are no doubt being downloaded at a record clip this morning, after news of his sudden death Monday while boating with his family on Lake St. Clair.

His time in Detroit ended badly

“Even when he’s just gotten in trouble,” Jacques Demers once lamented, “he has that look that says, ‘I’m sorry. Help me.' "

And you wanted to help. You wanted Probert to shake his demons. He had that ruddy face, that goofy grin, that tousled hair, the look of a man who could be so happy when he was happy. And he had such skill. So Demers, the coach, stuck out his neck, and Jimmy Devellano, the general manager, stuck out his neck, and Mike Ilitch, the owner, stuck out his neck, and in the end, they all got burned. Probert walked away after a motorcycle crash, signed a free-agent deal with Chicago and made millions more before retiring, finally, in 2002.

By that point, he was a memory here, part of the Bruise Brothers days, a guy who averaged more than 3.5 penalty minutes a game. Ironically, he checked out before the Wings began winning Stanley Cups and he never did get a ring. He had several incidents with the law and alcohol in 2004 and 2005. Most of us don’t know what the last few years have held.

He was 45 when he collapsed Monday afternoon. News spread quickly around here — “Bob Probert died?” — and we were stunned because he seemed so indestructible.

But no one is indestructible. Who knows what finally took him? But it took him too soon. Even to the end, you wanted Probert to make it. He should not be remembered by the worst he did, and he cannot be whitewashed by the best. But whether an opponent, an image, an addiction or a past, Bob Probert was always fighting something. He can lay down his arms now. And finally be at peace.
[Detroit Free Press]

Links to the Story

Bob Probert was boating when chest pains struck [Detroit Free Press]

How we'll remember ex-Red Wing Bob Probert [Detroit Free Press]

Joe Kocur: Bob Probert was the brother I never had [Detroit Free Press]

Bob Probert still fights the battle of his life [Detroit Free Press]

Ex-NHL enforcer Probert dies at 45 [CBC.CA]

Former Red Wings, Blackhawks enforcer Bob Probert dies at 45 [USATODAY.COM]

Bob Probert Dead: Died At 45 [The Huffington Post]

Bob Probert, Legendary Tough Guy, Dead at Age 45 [Bleacher Report]

Former NHL tough guy Bob Probert dead at age 45 after collapsing on a boat [Winnipeg Free Press]

Remembering Bob Probert as the 'teddy bear', the 'heavyweight champ' and 'one of the toughest guys ever' [Puck Daddy]

Ex-Hawks enforcer Probert dies Collapses on boat after complaining of severe chest pain he was 45 [Chicago Tribune]

Ex-Blackhawks enforcer Bob Probert dies at age 45 [Daily Herald]

Former Red Wings enforcer Bob Probert, 45, dies after collapsing on boat [MLive.COM]

Summarizing the reflections on former Red Wings enforcer Bob Probert's untimely death [MLive.COM]

Former NHL tough guy Bob Probert dies after collapsing on boat [CNN.COM]

Bob Probert fight log at Hockey Fights [Hockey Fights]

Bob Probert Dies at 45 [Hockey Fights]

Bob Probert suffered 'severe chest pain' before collapsing, father-in-law says [Windsor Star]

Legendary NHL tough guy remembered for kindness, generosity and love of family [Windsor Star]

FORMER NHL ENFORCER PROBERT PRONOUNCED DEAD [TSN.CA]

Farewell Bob Probert [The Ciskie Blog]

Troubled former NHL enforcer Bob Probert dies at age 45 [Vancouversun.com]

Former NHL tough guy Bob Probert dead at age 45 [Globe and Mail]

Former Blackhawk, Red Wing enforcer Bob Probert, Dead at 45

The latest claim regarding enforcers is "Nobody likes them when they're on the other team but you love them when they are on yours."

Well, despite the fact that Goon and Enforcer are often confused (Not the Goon that writes on this blog), it's often true.

Enforcers are now at a premium, or so I've been told. Well, the world lost one of the most notorious enforcers today in former Blackhawk and Red Wing Bob Probert. He was 45.

No reports of what the cause of death was, but there certain is a list of rumors. Anything from a heart attack to relapse and resulting drug overdose.

Bob's career accomplishments were more than fights, though that is inevitably what he'll be remembered for. I don't blame anyone for remembering him for any of his fights... like the one that almost lasted 2 minutes against Marty McSorley. Or his antics with Joey Kocur as teammates and then fighting each other when Kocur was a member of the Rangers.

People forget that Probert was an all star. When was the last time Boogaard was even considered a candidate for the all star game? I don't mean to pick on Boogaard in this regard, but I've been told countless times (and promoted through the media) that Boogaard was perhaps the best Enforcer in the NHL currently. Probert was an All Star in the 1987-88 season when he finished tied for 3rd on the Red Wings in points and, incredibly, first on the team in playoff points that year. Ok, so Yzerman was out with an injury but still... an Enforcer leading the team in points during the playoffs? Well, it doesn't matter. The Wings didn't win it all. Perhaps that's why. He also averaged around 40 points a season for a while and was, for a brief time, an Alternate Captain with the Wings.

Probert's life was fraught with off ice issues and, though ESPN Chicago blog writer Jesse Rogers calls him a great guy off the ice, but I'm not sure how great a guy can be with his track record with the law. He even spent some time in prison in Minnesota for cocaine possession. He's had horrible drug problems and alcohol abuse issues. It was so bad that the Red Wings, which is an organization, in my opinion, that likes to stand behind the players that came through their system and earned names for themselves, decided that it was a waste of time. He went to the Hawks and ended his career there...on a negative note (worked as a commentator for the Hawks for a short time then was fired and went into rehab).

I admit that, though I valued Probert's presence, I did so only marginally. I was never a fan of fighting or fighters. Am I a person who is going to sit here and put him on the same level as Red Wing greats such as Yzerman or Federov and so on? Heck no. Probert made a name for himself, and I'm not sure it was a good name.

Nonetheless, 45 years old. Wow. That's young. I think his abuse caught up with him and, though I don't know what caused his death, I can't help but think that his past transgressions took off 40-50 years of his life.

RIP Bob.